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  • terrylikesyogurt
    replied
    Oh that's right, even better. Thanks all.

    Leave a comment:


  • childay
    replied
    Originally posted by terrylikesyogurt View Post
    Thanks for everything so far. I confirmed that the 457 plan is "eligible for rollover to a qualified plan upon severance of service. It can roll to any qualified plan (IRA or an employer sponsored plan that allow rollovers in)." So I anticipate that upon leaving the employer it would be rolling over into an IRA that I would covert into a Roth. Included in the funds available are the following Vanguard Index Funds:

    Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Adm Intermediate-Term Bond __________
    Vanguard Emerging Mkts Stock Idx Adm Emerging Markets __________
    Vanguard 500 Index Admiral Large Blend __________
    Vanguard Small Cap Index Adm Small Blend __________
    Vanguard Total Intl Stock Index Admiral Foreign Large Blend __________
    Vanguard Total Stock Mkt Idx Adm Large Blend

    My 401a (employer 10% match) is already in an S&P500 index fund w/ BlackRock - we decided not to diversify within that retirement account to keep things simple. With this 457 there are a lot of good options. Since I'm not sure if I'll be w/ them for more than 1-2 years, again, keep it simple and just go w/ 100% VTSAX, or since I'm starting to allocate more of my income would I benefit from adding some diversity at this point? I guess I'll have to cross this bridge again when I leave and roll it over at Vanguard or Fidelity or wherever I open it so I would like to start thinking about it now.
    Can't go wrong with VTSAX
    In terms of rollover, you would be able to roll into the side practice solo 401k no need for doing some sort of roth conversion

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  • artemis
    replied
    I don't think it's going to matter much in the long run, so choose the funds you prefer. At least you have some very good ones to choose from!

    Leave a comment:


  • terrylikesyogurt
    replied
    Thanks for everything so far. I confirmed that the 457 plan is "eligible for rollover to a qualified plan upon severance of service. It can roll to any qualified plan (IRA or an employer sponsored plan that allow rollovers in)." So I anticipate that upon leaving the employer it would be rolling over into an IRA that I would covert into a Roth. Included in the funds available are the following Vanguard Index Funds:

    Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Adm Intermediate-Term Bond __________
    Vanguard Emerging Mkts Stock Idx Adm Emerging Markets __________
    Vanguard 500 Index Admiral Large Blend __________
    Vanguard Small Cap Index Adm Small Blend __________
    Vanguard Total Intl Stock Index Admiral Foreign Large Blend __________
    Vanguard Total Stock Mkt Idx Adm Large Blend

    My 401a (employer 10% match) is already in an S&P500 index fund w/ BlackRock - we decided not to diversify within that retirement account to keep things simple. With this 457 there are a lot of good options. Since I'm not sure if I'll be w/ them for more than 1-2 years, again, keep it simple and just go w/ 100% VTSAX, or since I'm starting to allocate more of my income would I benefit from adding some diversity at this point? I guess I'll have to cross this bridge again when I leave and roll it over at Vanguard or Fidelity or wherever I open it so I would like to start thinking about it now.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tim
    replied
    The IRS doesn’t have penalties on 457 early withdrawals. Gov and NG have substantially different rollover options. Each plan has a unique set of withdrawal options. Look at the SPD, get it from HR. Most have 3 options: cash, defined payments or defer to retirement. Some force you out. You need the SPD.

    Priorities for different allocations, WCI has some waterfall charts that may help.
    https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/fi...nd-attendings/

    Leave a comment:


  • Lithium
    replied
    "contribute to 403b beyond match or contribute to 457b?" is a false choice. Max out both. They're both great options, way better than investing in a taxable account.

    govt 457b's can be rolled over to a solo 401k, or any other 401k than takes rollovers.

    Leave a comment:


  • artemis
    replied
    Originally posted by terrylikesyogurt View Post
    Anyhow if there's something resembling those Vanguard index funds available to me in the 457, should I rather than maxing out my 403b, only put enough in to make my 5% match and then dump the rest (and try to max) the 457 instead? That seems to make the most sense to me given they are both tax advantaged accounts with (at least to my novice eyes) similar behavior. Fully vested in both automatically anyway.
    As long as the 457b is governmental, maxing out it and only putting enough in the 403b to get the match (assuming you can't afford to max out both) is the way to go if the funds in the 457b are better. But you want to be 100% SURE that 457b can be rolled over into another retirement account when you leave!

    Leave a comment:


  • terrylikesyogurt
    replied
    Thanks for the recommendations. I'll look through each of the Templeton plans but my cursory look yesterday wasn't encouraging. Some good news, though, is that the 457 is considered a government plan and can be rolled over into any other retirement account when I leave the company (confirmed with the plan vendor who said it's "quasi-governmental" and he hasn't had any issues w/ it being rolled over). The funds available to me there include the following Vanguard index funds: VFINX, VEIEX, NAESX, VBMFX, and VGTSX (but the offering sheet is from 2015 so... I'm not sure, I see that VFINX is now closed). Anyhow if there's something resembling those Vanguard index funds available to me in the 457, should I rather than maxing out my 403b, only put enough in to make my 5% match and then dump the rest (and try to max) the 457 instead? That seems to make the most sense to me given they are both tax advantaged accounts with (at least to my novice eyes) similar behavior. Fully vested in both automatically anyway.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tim
    replied
    Originally posted by artemis View Post
    If you're sure you're only going to be participating in the plan for 3 years, I'd suggest picking CBALX (as it has one of the lower ERs on your list, and appears to be reasonably stock-heavy) and putting 100% of your contributions into that. The fund's long-term performance doesn't matter so much, as you are going to be rolling it over into another retirement account soon.
    This seems to parallel the S&P 500. Less volatility (less drop and less gain).

    Leave a comment:


  • artemis
    replied
    If you're sure you're only going to be participating in the plan for 3 years, I'd suggest picking CBALX (as it has one of the lower ERs on your list, and appears to be reasonably stock-heavy) and putting 100% of your contributions into that. The fund's long-term performance doesn't matter so much, as you are going to be rolling it over into another retirement account soon.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lithium
    replied
    I don't recognize any of those mutual funds. Are any of them index funds, rather than actively managed? If those are your only options, it's unfortunate you don't have anything at lower cost available.

    Also, you mentioned the Templeton plan has funds with "mostly" very high ER's. But it's better to be in a plan with one good mutual fund and 10+ terrible funds than be in a plan with all mediocre to bad funds. One good mutual fund may be all you need. The Columbia plan looks pretty bad.

    Leave a comment:


  • terrylikesyogurt
    replied
    Okay, spent my slow afternoon digging into the 403b options available.
    Metlife - out, it's all annuities
    Templeton - out, it's mostly very high ERs
    Columbia - we have access to a subset of no-load institutional funds but not NINDX which is their S&P500 index fund. Here's a selection of funds from the list I pulled for their combination of low ER and high 5 and 10% returns.
    Symbol YTD 1 Yr 3 Yr (Annualized) 5 Yr (Annualized) 10 Yr (Annualized) Total Exp Ratio Alpha Beta RSquared Std. Dev. M* Rating
    CBALX 7.07% 16.86% 9.10% 8.35% 10.11% 0.70% 0.08 0.66 0.97 3.29 *****
    CLQZX 14.48% 30.05% 16.17% 14.08% -- 0.92% 0.24 1.03 0.96 5.17 ***
    GEGTX 18.95% 37.54% 18.24% 14.50% 16.03% 0.79% 0.4 1.01 0.93 5.17 ***
    UMLGX 23.23% 42.91% 19.24% 13.78% 16.31% 0.87% 0.28 1.18 0.86 6.29 ***
    ACRNX 9.51% 18.57% 13.40% 11.22% 12.25% 0.85% -0.12 1.16 0.87 6.06 **
    COTZX 20.23% 26.33% 11.98% 8.65% 8.92% 0.64% 71.00% 0.23 45.00% 173.00% *****
    CCIZX 14.47% 41.46% 21.99% 21.36% 0.99% 42.00% 1.18 83.00% 633.00% ***
    CMSCX 31.3 42.02 26.63 18.57 16.97 1.08% 0.64 1.28 0.79 7.16

    I guess this is important context: I don't anticipate staying longer than 3 years at my current employer, just enough to vest fully into the 401a. I could stay on longer as PT staff but I imagine if I'm staying in my city for > 3 years I will have transitioned at least 30 hours of my time to a solo/small practice so I imagine I would be rolling it over into my solo 401k or roth IRA at that time.

    I was initially intrigued in the GEGTX fund but I'm not sure what to make of factors like the morningstar rating and risk components of each. Does it matter over potentially only 3 years? (Or if we are getting new retirement options next year anyway, am I splitting too fine a hair?) And I understand that more than the numbers selecting a mutual fund (particularly non-index ones) reflects my opinions about the underlying securities/funds, the fund managers' approach, and the direction of the economy as a whole. I don't quite know enough to have informed opinions about such matters.

    Leave a comment:


  • GIMD
    replied
    You already received some great advices here and are in a better position than most by just being in this forum. I want to emphasize the importance of living below your means and having a high savings rate. When we started out a few years ago, we had a bit higher income than than you guys did but a larger debt burden and a mortgage. We were definitely not financially savvy but with just living an average life, we were able to pay off both in less than 3 year. You will do fine. Congrats on your engagement and enjoy planning for your wedding.

    Leave a comment:


  • terrylikesyogurt
    replied
    Originally posted by Tim View Post
    Anecdotally (daughter went through one last year):
    Powerpoint presentation with a fairly large group of many levels of new employees. The give you an overview of everything with little focus on retirement plans.
    Instructions are made to sign on to your account and schedule an appointment with your plan custodial advisor. Limited opportunity for questions, mostly eligibility for a plan as one of another of the options. You might actually spend more time on dental and eyecare options for family plans. Most of the detail is online only.
    The majority was healthcare options and the employee withholding. In my daughters situation, the physicians healthcare is 100% paid. She mentioned the never even discussed the retirement investment options. That was on your own. Once you get a logon, then you see the details.
    This - it's pretty terrible. I was one of two MD's in the room, everyone else was a masters level or below (mostly below). Thankfully the HR coordinator is actually a decent source of information when I pepper her with multiple small questions via email, she did tell me to max out the 403b contribution for this year instead of waiting for new options when I emailed her a follow-up question, so there's that. And anyhow, that's why I'm posting my questions here, right? I'll keep things simple in the 401a, thanks everyone.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lithium
    replied
    Originally posted by Tim View Post
    Anecdotally (daughter went through one last year):
    Powerpoint presentation with a fairly large group of many levels of new employees. The give you an overview of everything with little focus on retirement plans.
    Instructions are made to sign on to your account and schedule an appointment with your plan custodial advisor. Limited opportunity for questions, mostly eligibility for a plan as one of another of the options. You might actually spend more time on dental and eyecare options for family plans. Most of the detail is online only.
    The majority was healthcare options and the employee withholding. In my daughters situation, the physicians healthcare is 100% paid. She mentioned the never even discussed the retirement investment options. That was on your own. Once you get a logon, then you see the details.
    Agree that quality and emphasis is highly variable. I certainly wouldn't expect them to break down the investment options, but hopefully if they cover it they could at least clarify eligibility date, vesting schedule, if there is a true up on the match, etc. Often helps to attend with a group so you hear questions that didn't occur to you.
    Obviously if you are going to a generic new employee orientation dominated by receptionists and MA's it's going to far less useful than one mostly geared for MD's.

    Leave a comment:

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