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  • #16
    Is this yearly renewal with 30d notice a thing in physician contracts? I would have been negotiating that initially as Tim suggests. Silly to have a 90 day termination and then a loophole. Mine is actually 6 months without cause, contract with no time limit

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    • #17
      Terrible. I'd bring it up like "Hey Frank, did you get your renewal yet? I'm deferring my brick pizza oven until I get mine.". Or along those lines.

      And if they are doing it to Frank, then it could happen to you. Seems like "they" don't have much regard for "you people". Terrible...
      "Oh look another bajillion point declin-Ooooh!!! A coupon for pizza!!!!" <--- This is what everyone's IPS should be. ✓✓✓

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      • #18
        Originally posted by MrWeenie View Post
        Ah while I am in confessional. I took the budget copy when copying my own paperwork. It is was having the tell tale heart so I threw it away in the shredder!!!!
        It is also removing some billing people (names I do not know) and it has a long list of cuts in payroll for some doctors and decisions on freezing hiring to 2021.

        For his section it has 3 peers listed who vouch work product volume in billing is not as expected at hire. IDK if these people even know or sometime in last 1 year made a off comment and were included in this. We have a group meeting on 15th of month. It may come up there in some intent like billing people being cut out.
        Please clarify your position in the group. Are you a doctor who is an employee? Nurse practitioner? How do you know about this long standing practice?

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        • #19
          I honestly cannot imagine such an insane and passive aggressive work environment. These people are adults? So crazy.

          Maybe look for a new place if possible, this can happen to you and you cannot discount what odd and hidden ways it might.

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          • #20
            The word partnership has many meanings.
            •Some are structured as a pure investment. No need or intent to ever grant an equity interest.
            Partners plan to build the value and eventually cash out.
            Purely employees, physician or not.
            •Some are structured as a democratic organization with a path to an equity interest.

            Polar opposites from an ethical point of view. The former typically pay higher to compensate for the lack of a payoff besides the paycheck. If this is your employment model, your suggestions on behalf of a fellow employee will have only potentially negative consequences. This is obviously no accident. From a “guilt standpoint”, you took higher pay in exchange for the method of operation. Your choice is really between working there for the premium or finding a better job.

            There have been many posts of partnerships or sole practitioners that have much more deceptive and toxic environments. Life is not fair, but you have no obligation to sacrifice yourself. This sounds mild, 30 vs 90 days. It’s in the contract, both he and you agreed to it. As you mentioned, this isn’t the first time and probably not the last.
            It is was it is. If you are personally planning to leave, not a thing wrong with asking your friend if he has any networking connections or job leads. Strictly in confidence of course.

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            • #21
              The people who are saying he should leave are being naive. If someone is being mistreated you can speak up, it’s not even clear in this case that someone is being mistreated. You don’t leave a job because the guy in the cubicle next to you is having a problem.

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              • #22
                What if the soon-to-be-fired physician stumbled across the same information on the office printer? Perhaps you could drop it in his mailbox, in an unmarked envelope, and then just let the chips fall as they may.

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                • #23
                  If you are not in the decision-making of hiring and firing, I do not think it is your role to warn him of anything directly. What if things actually change at the last minute (another doc quits or is stricken with major illness and they need the newer guy to stay, or there is change in hiring/firing decisions)?
                  You might mention to him that you are uncomfortable with past history of hiring/firing practices, and you are worried about your, and everybody else's (including his) status.

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                  • #24
                    “You might mention to him that you are uncomfortable with past history of hiring/firing practices, and you are worried about your, and everybody else's (including his) status.”

                    In today’s pandemic, this is a natural topic of conversation. Furloughs, layoffs, benefit reductions, pay cuts are all over. Just avoid being the one that seems to be hurting morale.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by fatlittlepig View Post
                      The people who are saying he should leave are being naive. If someone is being mistreated you can speak up, it’s not even clear in this case that someone is being mistreated. You don’t leave a job because the guy in the cubicle next to you is having a problem.
                      Sure, you don’t leave a job because someone else is having a problem, but that’s not what anyone is suggesting. You leave a job because you don’t want to be employed by people who are intentionally deceptive to the detriment of their employees. It’s only a matter of time until you’re that guy.

                      Play with fire, get burned.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by EM-CCM MD View Post

                        Sure, you don’t leave a job because someone else is having a problem, but that’s not what anyone is suggesting. You leave a job because you don’t want to be employed by people who are intentionally deceptive to the detriment of their employees. It’s only a matter of time until you’re that guy.

                        Play with fire, get burned.
                        Not necessarily, not enough information was provided in the post to give any advice. If someone is being mistreated I would speak up, I have done this several times in my career. In this situation I don’t know enough about the machinations and operating procedures of private practice medicine to make any sort of judgment.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by EM-CCM MD View Post

                          Sure, you don’t leave a job because someone else is having a problem, but that’s not what anyone is suggesting. You leave a job because you don’t want to be employed by people who are intentionally deceptive to the detriment of their employees. It’s only a matter of time until you’re that guy.
                          Play with fire, get burned.
                          Tons of assumptions, all made towards the partnership.
                          Suppose the conversation is held.
                          The non-renewed physician says , “I know. It’s not working out. Dr. X has been really helpful. I just can’t hit the numbers. Everyone else does. I’m looking at 2 jobs that Dr. Y put me in touch with. This just isn’t a good fit. Keep it quiet please.”
                          Far fetched, the point is plenty of communication could have taken place. The paperwork could be merely a formality. In some groups, that’s how things are done. I am aware of a physician that was carried a year. When a new position was found, the paperwork was completed leaving no damaging trail.

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                          • #28
                            First consider that there may be other factors of which you, as a non-partner, are unaware. That said, the partners routinely taking advantage of this loophole is disgusting. The decision to stay and reap the benefits now that you know the ethical code the business abides by would be troubling to me. Not sure I could continue on.

                            Should you decide to find employment in a practice you will be proud to support, you should lay your reasons out for everybody to hear. I doubt it would make a difference but you will have done the right thing and put others on notice.
                            Working to protect good doctors from bad advisors. Fox & Co CPAs, Fox & Co Wealth Mgmt. 270-247-6087

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                            • #29
                              1. When people here decry the hospital employed potion with tons of dead weight administrators, remember this. The small PP doctors will screw new hires much much more than a hospital does. Many hospitals have operating procedures they have to abide by and you are unlikely to be caught in such a 30 day before anniversary contract like this group.

                              2. Did this doc not know about this contract renewal 30 days before anniversary. Is that not in the contract. If not, it is his fault for signing such a contract. He should have had the contract reviewed by a attorney before he signed it.

                              3. Another stupid doc mistake. Buying a big dumb doctor house before you are made a partner. Yet this will not prevent other new posters on this site from making the same decision, because they feel that their doc group is not like this and they always keeps people long term and makes them partners. Except when they do not do that, and you get burned with that house that you can't sell in this pandemic.
                              Last edited by Kamban; 06-06-2020, 12:25 PM.

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                              • #30
                                Also- it may actually be a nice way of "firing" people by the group. Not saying its fair to the employed dr, but in the future- my contract wasnt renewed for financial reasons is much easier to explain than "i got fired and given 90 days" even if they are both for the same reasons. just a thought.. only the OP knows the true culture of the group

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